tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post6834452442020974798..comments2024-02-19T09:05:53.444-08:00Comments on Akit's Complaint Department: It's Ugly: Caltrain 8-Ride and Monthly Pass Transition to ClipperAkithttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-25476242783490860012012-02-20T11:15:28.159-08:002012-02-20T11:15:28.159-08:00I just ticket on caltrain because I accidentally e...I just ticket on caltrain because I accidentally entered the zone I was in, instead of the zone I was going to. I was in a hurry on my way to the airport and have only ridden caltrain once two years ago. I swear the machine only asked "what zone." I assumed it was asking what zone I was in and would then ask what zone I was going to, because I thought that maybe every caltrain ticket machine was programmed the same way. I thought 2.75$ seemed sort of cheap, but didn't realize what had happened until it spit out the zone 4 to zone 4 ticket. Not wanting to miss the train I just got on and figured I would tell the ticket checker when he came around. When he came around he wasn't having it and wrote me up for fare evasion.<br /><br />When I went back to look at the machines when I got back from out of the country they say "select destination zone." My question is, does anyone remember them at one point saying only "what zone?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-785212592956826022011-04-05T16:18:24.274-07:002011-04-05T16:18:24.274-07:00I used the "ShopSafe" feature of my Bank...I used the "ShopSafe" feature of my Bank of America Visa card to generate a special card number which can be used by Clipper only - I do this for all online purchases (including other recurring charges). I wondered whether there was a problem when Clipper hadn't debited my credit card account by the 5th of the month.<br /><br />I called in, and learned that their charge was declined. In the past, this has happened when the vendor used a different name (e.g. "Clipper Card" rather than "ClipperCard"), or made multiple charges in one month. <br /><br />Naturally, Clipper didn't notify me of this but just blocked the card. My online account didn't indicate any problem - it showed that I had an April pass on the card.<br /><br />I "updated my billing information" with a new card number, and after that Clipper waited an extra business day before charging my card, and then subjected me to (as noted elsewhere) to a 3-day wait before downloading the new data.<br /><br />I had no problems with paper passes for 33 years - I started on Caltrain in 1978. But Clipper has been a total mess, with a significant, time-wasting problem every month.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-125304877499322902011-01-21T11:50:42.160-08:002011-01-21T11:50:42.160-08:00Though there's benefit to your short-ride scen...Though there's benefit to your short-ride scenario, I think that more people will space out the tag-off and pay max fare more frequently than have a mid-ride change of plans.<br /><br />But why stop there ? We can have the best of both worlds. Allow the user to set a zone limit at tag-on time. If they decide mid-ride to stop short then only deduct the fare for the shorter ride at tag-off time. This is also possible with the Clipper hardware, all it takes is some programming.<br /><br />Imagine that - after all of the millions spent Clipper could actually provide a benefit to 8-ride users.<br /><br />If deployed as designed now I predict a lot of riders angry about being charged for tickets to Gilroy for making a common honest mistake.thielgesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-54949879261846102552011-01-21T11:34:47.055-08:002011-01-21T11:34:47.055-08:00In my POV, I prefer the current system because if ...In my POV, I prefer the current system because if I want to stop short for some reason, at least I can exit and not pay extra. Might also benefit those who are forced to exit due to a delay ahead.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-85917758220847451362011-01-21T11:23:18.337-08:002011-01-21T11:23:18.337-08:00Akit - the ability to specify how far you intend t...Akit - the ability to specify how far you intend to travel when tagging on is exactly what is needed to prevent the "space out max fare" risk. Caltrain audits tickets on-board to catch cheats. All that is needed to catch the fare cheat that you describe is for the Caltrain conductor to notice that you limited your ticket to a stop before where the conductor is doing the fare check. This is exactly what happens with paper tickets. There's no reason why Clipper cannot model the way that paper tickets work this way.<br /><br />(and no worries about the misspelling, that happens all the time with an odd name like mine. And mispronunciation is even more common :-)thielgesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-92049213586644677352011-01-21T10:12:31.349-08:002011-01-21T10:12:31.349-08:00Whoops, my apologies for misspelling your name.Whoops, my apologies for misspelling your name.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-32428797783007665392011-01-21T10:11:35.064-08:002011-01-21T10:11:35.064-08:00thiegles: Thanks for the comments.
The 8-Ride sys...thiegles: Thanks for the comments.<br /><br />The 8-Ride system is flawed with Clipper, especially when people want to go further and can't do so without paying full fare or adding a second 8-ride on their account.<br /><br />To talk about the tag-off policy, it's the same policy used by Golden Gate Transit and BART to make sure people are paying the accurate fare. Sure, it's not fair to forget to tag-off and lose a chunk of cash, but it's the only way to make sure Caltrain and Clipper are not losing money by fare cheats.<br /><br />During TransLink's pilot program almost a decade ago, the readers had buttons people would press to tell what zone they wanted to go, but that meant someone could fare evade and pay only $2 for a ride that really costs triple that amount. The tag-on and off policy made it to avoid cheats, but at the same time, make customers grumpy.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-22055959230830677542011-01-21T10:02:21.501-08:002011-01-21T10:02:21.501-08:00Hi Akit - Nice summary. This transition is essent...Hi Akit - Nice summary. This transition is essentially an unannounced fare increase for anyone who had used 8-ride with zone upgrades. Also the Clipper version of the 8-ride exposes users to a risk that didn't exist with paper tickets. If you forget to tag off then you're charged the max fare. That mistake was impossible with paper tickets. Single ride users are exposed to the same risk but at least they still have the option to buy a paper ticket instead to protect against this problem.<br /><br />The current 8-ride Clipper implementation is seriously flawed. Caltrain should delay the discontinuation of paper 8-rides until the problems are fixed. That would be as easy as simply not updating the software in the ticket vending machines.<br /><br />I understand the desire to migrate to Clipper, but it should be done in a way that doesn't harm Caltrain riders. Shouldn't riders benefit from this expensive Clipper change rather than suffer ?thielgesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-17120255285956503482011-01-18T14:10:12.635-08:002011-01-18T14:10:12.635-08:00I don't know what would happen to the expirati...I don't know what would happen to the expiration if you add an additional 8-ride on your card. This wasn't mentioned on their website.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-13143934050062774642011-01-18T09:32:58.765-08:002011-01-18T09:32:58.765-08:00if you load more than one 8-ride Caltrain pass on ...if you load more than one 8-ride Caltrain pass on your clipper card, does the 60 day expiration start on the date you purchase, or the date you use the first ride?<br />Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-31371663638758139562011-01-07T12:59:30.368-08:002011-01-07T12:59:30.368-08:00Sorry, you can't use a transit benefit debit c...Sorry, you can't use a transit benefit debit card at the retailers like Walgreens. It has to be a place that solely sells transit media.<br /><br />The debit card has so many restrictions that your other alternatives is their website, order by phone, or try the old Clipper automated machines at places like the Temp Transbay Terminal and SF Ferry Building Golden Gate Ferry Terminal.<br /><br />The funny part about the Muni metro trains is, if half the car is not working, try the other two on the other side. It looks each half of the train car operates independently.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-58518106767870006622011-01-07T12:47:59.527-08:002011-01-07T12:47:59.527-08:00Akit, thanks for all the useful information. Here...Akit, thanks for all the useful information. Here's some more for your bag of tricks:<br /><br />* As you mention one can use a transit debit card at the muni metro machines to load a card instantly. However, it appears that it is not possible to buy a Caltrain eight-ride that doesn't terminate in zone 1. The machines say "how many zones do you want" but they are really asking: from zone 1 to which zone?<br /><br />I called Clipper and they said they would refund my 8-ride. Now I'm wondering if one of those "Other retailers" in the retail location list may actually be able to perform this service. I do feel sorry for anyone on the peninsula who has a transit debit/credit card and has to use clipper, since there is nothing down there but those walgreens.<br /><br />* I boarded the L line and the reader was out of order. I went to the next reader down and it was out of order too. So, I took my seat. The scary part was that when I disembarked, I noticed that the readers were working. So, what could I say to the fare inspector in this situation? Perhaps I should just get a seat really close to the reader so I can tag it quickly when it comes back up? :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-68770065294911025132011-01-07T11:53:28.190-08:002011-01-07T11:53:28.190-08:00"Unclear policy regarding what would happen i..."Unclear policy regarding what would happen if a 8-ride passenger exits at a zone less than what's designated."<br /><br />Tag on, tag off. System checks if you have a product that exactly matches what you did. So if you have a 1-3 eight ride and ride from 1-2, it charges you for a one way zone 1-2. <br /><br />"Why not just enforce a policy of tagging-on and off every single time?"<br /><br />A large percentage of Caltrain riders have monthly passes. At 4th/King at Rush hour, 300 people might get off a single train. The difference between 30 of them needing to tag off and 300 needing to tag off - all the while boarding passengers are trying to tag on = a mess. <br /><br />Additionally, late arriving passengers would need to run halfway down the platform in some instances to get to a reader - if they have a pass they can just jump on the train (Caltrain has done a pretty crappy job with reader locales and numbers).murphstahoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378354136823393492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-71874577297875347422011-01-07T09:24:41.465-08:002011-01-07T09:24:41.465-08:00The only problem with Caltrain is the maximum fare...The only problem with Caltrain is the maximum fare after the new fare hike is $12.50.<br /><br />The maximum negative balance of a Clipper card is $10.<br /><br />So... if you subtract 12.50 to 10.00, it equals $2.50 MINIMUM FARE.Akithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905273274257369338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4714426597280694490.post-55565902322557897442011-01-07T09:13:13.777-08:002011-01-07T09:13:13.777-08:00Please note that the minimum e-cash required for C...Please note that the minimum e-cash required for Caltrain products remains $1.25.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com